Real Estate Forums

SEOWolf · 03-20-2006, 09:45 AM

This thread is a sidebar of a thread about SEO Guy Accused of Plagiarism that got slightly off topic.

Since ALL viewpoints are welcome in this Real Estate Forum, I did not want to delete any posts so I simply moved them to this new thread.

Thanks,

~VegasMack

LVH · 03-28-2006, 02:58 AM

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I can understand that you are pissed at me because when it was reported that wayne griggs was back on REW you were banned again. I made it clear, you had a lifetime ban, and for very good reason. That will never change you will always be banned there, I know its a great place, but you burned your bridges there.

No you never stated that but nevertheless it seems you would have more loyalty than that to your first clients that got you started in this business. It also seems that others dont share your views. Here is a post from a member at REW about me. Just for the record, I could join REW or be on it right now and you would never know. You know I speak the truth.

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I stumbled upon this forum about a month ago. I saw there was another Atlanta Realtor and wondered who he was. Went to his web site where he only has a drawing of himself but no picture. Saw he was with RE/MAX but there are thousands of RE/MAX agents in Atlanta.

Anyway, I bumped into this big guy getting coffee in the hall at my office. He seemed to be a new agent that I hadn't met yet. I was busy and didn't introduce myself. He then appearantly recognized me and introduced himself as Wayne Griggs, the "Atlanta Realtor" on this forum. Talk about a small world.

Wayne is pretty darn impressive. He's just been in Atlanta for a few weeks and already he is keeping two buyer's agents busy and he is going out on a bunch of listing calls. He seems like he has a deep technical understanding of web sites and computers. It was a pleasure talking with another realtor about Serps and Google updates and such and not having them give you a blank stare back.

Nice meeting you Wayne. I look forward to helping you get started in Atlanta and sharing ideas about web sites.

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So now you see this come up, and you are completely on board, ready to fling the shit, and involve yourself in something that has nothing to do with you.

No Morgan this is your ego again. This has everything to do with me. I had the same type things happen to me with you. The only difference is you were able to discredit me because of my confrontational sytle, so I was dismissed as a nut case. Read the post above of mine, where you claimed you created my Atlanta site, you see a patern?

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My first real estate SEO clients are still first page, including Jim

See here we are again you saying I was not a client, but read some of your own post on other forums. I posted one above.

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Subsequent client hire me based on that track record (And yes I am a good salesman to) but guess what, I get them results as well.

Yes you get results, I dont think I said you were a bad Seo, just a bad business person and you have some ethical issues.

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De Ja Vous - probably, I did say the same thing when you pulled this. Because you know as well as I do, that I spent hours on the phone with you helping you with your website, talking about business in general and yes getting personal. That is what I do, I try to help, and most of the time (Although I am learning not to) I end up giving away to much of my time to people who dont appreciate it.

You spent hours on the phone with me teaching me to do your work for you. I was just to stupid at that time to realize it. Paying you 2k per month you should have not only been spending time with me on the phone but also taking my clients out to show them property

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talking about business in general and yes getting personal

So is this the tactic you use to manipulate people when you need to. Build that trust factor and when the time comes use that personality of yours to get them to do your bidding? You said it yourself you are a hell of a saleman.

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This thread was not started because I claimed that you and Jim didnt help me. I learned as much about the real estate industry in the early days from you and Jim, as you learned from me about SEO.

I am truly surprised you admit that. The only thing I am sorry to say I learned from you about Seo, was what not to do. What you did to the Atlanta site and the linking scheme you employed was asking for nothing but trouble, but why should you care you were getting 2k a month from me.

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You both helped me in a lot of ways, and on any other day I would be happy to write you a testimonial for it - but once again, that is not what this thead is about.

So those who helped you get to where you are, you treat them in this manner? When I offered to bury the hatchet that was to imply that we try to start fresh and build a relationship from new. You on the other hand couldnt get past the fact that now you might admit, I know more of what you are doing and how you are doing it. You also know my personality. If I see a wrong I want to right it, whether that means offending you or anyone else. Thats just my style, but I believed that when I signed back up for your forum, you also understood my posting style and manner has changed for the better.

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It was supposed to be about VKI, which I believe was just a clever way to intro the whole JimM thing.

The claims you make about VKI whether true or not can not justify you being a hypocrite. You claim they are saying that they had a contract with you, yet you have made claims that you designed and coded Jims websites and my Atlanta site, but then again you also claim that I was not a client. So how can you expect anyone to believe what you are saying. Your comments only seem imply what benefits you. To use a tactic of yours, you have two people here Jim and I showing proof that your claims are false. What appears to be more creditable?

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It has now become about certain complaints JimM has, I have provided my proof, pulled no punches and am happy to expose anything anyone wants about the transaction, that is why I came here.

No you are here because you were prodded here. Your ego which I knew and I would suspect Jim knows would not allow you to go without answering. Why do you think I sent that PM to Marc. I knew he would run right to you.

You also came here because with what Jim is saying and how this relates to some of the issues I had with you, this could be damaging for you. As stated what are the odds of your first clients who got you into this business having some of the same issues.

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As for why Jim's post was deleted from the REW forum - #1 he was hijacking someone else's thread #2 he was flaming which is against our rules and #3 Jim's accounts had previously been suspended from posting, and he created another account, we give people enough chances before they are banned.

How many times have you hijacked a thread? How many times have you flamed on your forum. I can go pull those from your forum if you like. Also if the rules apply to all, why in the hell and I have yet to figure this out, would you let Jay post on your forum when the first sentence he starts out with is " Morgan wont ban me because he knows what I can do if he does" LMAO does that sound like applying rules for all?

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VKI however is welcome to chime in with their rebuttal. In fact, what I posted has supporting evidence in my post

Checking the threads VKI was one of the first members of the forum back in 2004. It is only speculation but knowing you I am sure there may not have been a contract but I would bet that you had some type of verbal agreement with them. I know how you like to barter.

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There are rules at REW, and if someone breaks the rules, they get banned. Certain members of this forum were also banned for breaking those rules, that is not censorship, it is the way we do things.

What rules did Al and Mack break. I have looked at their post and cant see any reason they should have been ban. Yet Mack has been kind enough to allow you and your employees to come here and post and even promote your business. I am sure they will chime in as well and we can get their side of that story.

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It is after all, our forum, we make the rules and we enforce them. If it's such a bad place, why do you keep trying to come back?

Thats easy. You have a few successful sites, because of people like myself, Jim and a few others in the beginning singing your praises without knowing any better, we helped build that forum to what it is today. Do you remember you getting me to go to agentsonline and posting to get people to come to the forum? How you prodded me into putting my reputation on the online to help REW grow. Speaking of grow who got you Ed Kirkland and also gave a good report to others who were looking for seo. Hell you have even called me to tell me someone was going to call and almost gave me a script as to what to say to them. How many clients has Jim got you?

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Anyways, I have PM'd the admin of my intentions regarding Jim and this forum -

If you are referring to legal action against this forum, first read the disclaimers and second if it comes to that I would be happy to contribute to a legal fund.

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Trust me, I want the truth to come out,

Morgan I really dont think you do, I say that with all due respect. I know our history and I know now your history with Jim. If it comes to it I will have to fire up an old computer to pull your emails from when I was a client of yours.

I dont think my old friend that this is something you are going to be able to weasal out of. You have been able to accomplish a lot but you seem to have forgotton who got you there.

There is an old saying if you are not careful the same people you see going up that ladder of success you will see coming right back down it.

LVH · 03-28-2006, 12:53 PM

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That sounds similar to “It depends on what the definition of “is” is. HTML and CSS coding has absolutely nothing to do with design. I’m not sure about up in Canada, but in the states the definition of “design” would come under your heading of “Artwork” of which you have admitted here that you did NOT furnish for the www.realestatejackson.com website.

If you really want to get technical, I would imagine even if he did the CSS that you would be able to find that on serveral sites. Morgan in the past had a habit of copying other works making a few changes and claiming them to be his own. The first attempt on the Atlanta site was a guy in India, which I did not care for the design, the second attempt was the guy from Canada. Some of the forms, CSS and javascript was taken from other sites. None of these were custom created but yet Morgan per the post from Digitalpoint has claimed he designed the site.

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Even after you FLAMED Al and I on REW and then banned us for allegedly coping your forum without ANY contact by you whatsoever, both you and your employees have been able to post openly in this forum. Hell, I have even suggested your services on this forum.

If rules are rules Morgan should have ban himself

As for copying his forum, well first there is only so many ways you can relay real estate terms pertaining to these type forums, second since I helped to create most of those forums on REW, it would seem I have a certain degree of copyright authority as well as Jim.

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Sorry Morgan, but we don’t operate this forum in that fashion. We will NOT attempt to silence anyone. That is why you have access to this forum to present your side.

That is Morgans mode of operation on his forum. If he doesnt like a comment that goes against him whether true or not, he uses his authority as admin to silence those who oppose him or call him out on one of his untruths / half truths.

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As for your threat about getting a Cease and Desist order to have this thread removed, that is your right to attempt Morgan. However, you might consider the old saying “sunlight is the BEST disinfectant".

First once he signed in to this forum he needs to read the disclaimer, second hell would freeze over before he would be able to get a C&D. No US court is going to issue a C&D, I do not know Canada law but if one was issued since this forum is hosted by a US company it CAN NOT be enforced.

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I will have my lawyer draw up a C&D and have it fex Ex'd to you AND your web host.

Morgan before you make threats like this you should first understand US law. In order to get a C&D that will remove this thread you must first acquire a court order, hell I can send you a C&D to take down REW but its not worth the paper its wrote on without a court order. This again just shows you lack business savvy. Your mode of operation is to use threats because of your preceived power you have on the web, well my friend you are not as powerful as you might think. It is amazing what changes over a two year period.

Morgan you were lucky with me, my attorneys advised me that even with a judgement against you it would almost be impossible to attach anything you had, which by the way at that time, you had nothing, as for now I dont know.

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Anyways, I don't think your dislike for me is worth getting your ass in a sling over

Maybe you should ask yourself this question. I dont think its going to be worth you getting your ass in a sling. Do you really want everyone digging in to your practices? The again this is the child like ego talking. You act as if you are the king of the internet. Without your network, you have no skills as an Seo.

Explain to us what Seo skills you had when you worked on the Atlanta site. Was it the 70k links you purchased? Was it the PHP Nuke program you used on the site? Was it the Keyword stuffing you used in the CSS file? Was it the Hidden Text? What was it? I know by todays standards all those tactics then and now will get your ass penalized if caught. Hell you were even dumb enough to send Google an email saying that you purchased links. How smart was that?

How many of those tactics do you use with some of your clients now? Shall we look at see? We know you use some of them because a lot of your top sites dont rank well on Yahoo. Yahoo has made strides in Seo Spam that Google has not as of yet.

LVH · 03-29-2006, 03:31 AM

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You want to call me out on my services? I am very up front about my services and have a long track record of results. (My first real estate SEO clients are still first page, including Jim)

Well you cant say I didnt warn you, but since you asked if I wanted to call you out on your services, here goes.

I thought I would do a little checking to see what kind of Seo you offer, since I know what kind of BLACKHAT Seo you did on my Atlanta site. As per your wish, I thought I would check your sites. I didnt dig deep only previewed most except your Las Vegas Client. That was a NICE PREVIEW!

One of your Seo trademarks with your clients is keyword stuffing their navigation with Real Estate. Its always Community + Real Estate, yet if you check wordtracker or anyother phrase tracking system, you will see those phrases are not search hardly at all. I am honestly surprised Google hasnt penalized for this practice of keyword stuffing, but then again maybe it hasnt been reported, but sooner or later we all know Google catches most everything.

Now here is where it gets interesting. Since Las Vegas is my market, I thought I would dig deep in this clients site which I had never done before. I honestly have better things to do. It doesnt surprise me though Morgan cause I know how you operate. Its scary when someone can get into your head this much.

Something I found really interesting was this on your Las Vegas clients blog. ARE THEY AWARE OF IT? I know I wasnt aware of A LOT of things you did to my Atlanta site, but I paid you an arm and a leg, but what do I have to show for it. Take notice to the urls for the blog. Notice year and date?

http://www.mslasvegasrealestate.com/...x.php/1959/03/

wow I only searched from the year 1959 to the year 2099

http://www.mslasvegasrealestate.com/...x.php/2099/03/

BTW I Took Several Screen Shots!

It seems you have set a script to create a page for god knows how many years back and forward, flooded with keyword rich anchor text on each page totaling 73 anchor text links per page. This does not include the RSS feeds you have set up which I am sure creates more backlinks. Not to mention creating more relevance for the site as a whole for Las Vegas Real Estate and other primary keywords all Las Vegas websites wish to target.

What benefits do they have for this site. Lets see there are 73 keyword rich anchor text links per page X 30 days X 12 months X 140 years = 3,628,800 anchor text links pointing to their perspective pages. Thats 26,280 links per page. I bet Googlebot and the Google Algo loves that. Not to mention why a site that was less than a year old reached the top 5 in Google for its primary phrases. More to come later from this site.

Sorry since I found that I didnt look further but plan to.

So lets see from an Seo perspective. We know its BLACKHAT. We know its KEYWORD STUFFING. We know its creating MORE PAGES FOR THE SITE. We know its CREATING BACKLINKS. We know in a sense its HIDDEN LINKS. We know its AGAINST GOOGLES WEBMASTER GUIDELINES. We know A LOT MORE but why waste time posting all of it. Need to keep a little for later

Oh I forgot WE NOW KNOW WHAT KIND OF SEO YOU ARE!

The one real moral here is that if these type of BLACKHAT practices are being used on any of your other clients, they stand to lose income, rankings and the fees they have paid you to date.

Isnt it amazing Morgan how much someone can learn from a bad experience.

I cant wait to hear your response or anyone elses!!!!!

Las Vegas · 03-29-2006, 10:13 AM

Wayne, I just don't understand you. Don't you have to sell Real Estate? For a real estate agent you sure spend enough time on different web boards stirring up trouble. Because of your actions you sure seem to get banned from enough of them as well. Why not stop worrying about everyone else, and start worrying about YOUR rankings, and YOUR site? That might help your rankings a little bit

A few weeks ago you were going after Diann Tonnesen, who is #1 for las vegas real estate on Google. I guess it's our turn now, since we're #3. How did Charles and Jaqueline Richey get so lucky to be skipped by you? They are at #2.....maybe their next. I won't try and figure out your logic.

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Originally Posted by LVH

Something I found really interesting was this on your Las Vegas clients blog. ARE THEY AWARE OF IT? I know I wasnt aware of A LOT of things you did to my Atlanta site, but I paid you an arm and a leg, but what do I have to show for it. Take notice to the urls for the blog. Notice year and date?

http://www.mslasvegasrealestate.com/...x.php/1959/03/

wow I only searched from the year 1959 to the year 2099

http://www.mslasvegasrealestate.com/...x.php/2099/03/

BTW I Took Several Screen Shots!

Wayne, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Morgan. I doubt Morgan even knows we have a Blog on the site. He certainly didn't have any part of setting it up.

This is part of the Blog Script mslasvegasrealestate.com uses. It's a popular blogging script put out by B2Evolution, designed by Francois Planque. If your interested, the script can be found at http://b2evolution.net/. This blogging script is used by thousands of different websites. I have no idea why this script puts all those years in there (if you or anyone else can figure out how to remove it please let me know!), but I don't think it's an issue with Google, or any search engine. Because none of those years are linked to from anywhere. The only way you can even stumble across those years is by doing a search and searching those years specifically. What proves my point is that those 2 random examples you came up with aren't even cached or indexed by Google. Kind of hard to be doing some sort of super secret spam technique if Google doesn't even know the pages exist!

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Originally Posted by LVH

Not to mention why a site that was less than a year old reached the top 5 in Google for its primary phrases. More to come later from this site.

Surprise, surprise again your facts are totally wrong. Our site is almost 2 years old. We get such high rankings because we are constantly working on our site adding new content, and we don't cheat. Links are very important yes, but in the end content will always be king. People will always be able to find their way to the sites with the best content and information for the subject they are looking for. I could name numerous examples of sites in the Las Vegas market who used to have some pretty nice rankings for Google and Yahoo who don't anymore because they were cheating, or at the very least doing some shady things.

Morgan designed our site. But Morgan did not write the text on any page of the site. Morgan did not put all those communities on the right hand menu, I did. I'm not trying to "game" the engine, I don't have to. I have more information on all those communities on my site then most other websites. That's why I rank good for them. My navigation menus are just that, ways for my surfers to navigate to areas of interest for them.

Morgan handles linking for our site, that's really it. Morgan did SEO on our site for 3 months about a year ago, as we paid for. Since then it's been all us (with occasional input from Morgan when he is asked). I'm really not sure how it works with Morgan's other clients, but with us I occasionally ask for advice but otherwise I handle this area myself.

We work very hard on our site, and are not breaking any rules. So before you make baseless accusations again, please know what you are talking about. I welcome you to keeping digging into our site. I'm not worried about what you will find.

BTW, we still have the unresolved issue of you STEALING content from the mslasvegasrealestate.com website. Before you were banned on REW, you had been called out for stealing the design and wording for our email forms. Looks like you are still using our form design and wordings. To be honest, I don't really care anymore. It makes no difference. I've changed up the look of our forms anyways. But anyone reading this thread should realize who they are listening to.

What's the saying, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?

I've heard some really nice things about you Wayne. But you act like kind of a jerk on web boards. Tone it down a few notches. Get your facts straight. I'm sure you are a great guy, but sometimes it's difficult to tell in an environment like web forums.

LVH · 03-29-2006, 01:19 PM

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A few weeks ago you were going after Diann Tonnesen, who is #1 for las vegas real estate on Google. I guess it's our turn now, since we're #3. How did Charles and Jaqueline Richey get so lucky to be skipped by you? They are at #2.....maybe their next. I won't try and figure out your logic.

Well you have to understand Diann and I have this love hate relationship going. Yes I did have a thread going about her for using hidden text and hidden links, her link farm and her screwing a lot of her link partners by placing their links way down her pages, they are not getting ANY PR benefit. What do you think I just pull this shit out of the air. As for Charles, well Charles is actually a pretty good guy, he doesnt spam and uses GOOD Seo ethics.

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Wayne, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Morgan. I doubt Morgan even knows we have a Blog on the site. He certainly didn't have any part of setting it up.

Somehow I kind of knew you might say something of that nature. I know Morgans past, I know what kind of BLACKHAT &^%$ he pulled with my Atlanta site. Yeah Morgan knew cause it has his signature traits all over it. Hell here is another one of his Clients using the SAMETHING Notice any similarities? You're a client, He's a client with a blog. Since Morgan cant defend himself he sends one of his clients, wow talk about ball-less.

Its sad Morgan cant defend himself and has to put one of his clients who seems nice in the middle of this. I truly do mean that Michelle.

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This is part of the Blog Script mslasvegasrealestate.com uses. It's a popular blogging script put out by B2Evolution, designed by Francois Planque. If your interested, the script can be found at http://b2evolution.net/. This blogging script is used by thousands of different websites. I have no idea why this script puts all those years in there (if you or anyone else can figure out how to remove it please let me know!), but I don't think it's an issue with Google, or any search engine.

Thanks for the offer but no thank you. So are you saying that this script loads all by its self with B2evolution? I sure hope not. When I get time today I will go pull a couple of sites that use B2evolution blogs. As for how to remove them, I am sure Morgan knows.

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I don't think it's an issue with Google, or any search engine. Because none of those years are linked to from anywhere. The only way you can even stumble across those years is by doing a search and searching those years specifically. What proves my point is that those 2 random examples you came up with aren't even cached or indexed by Google.

Well I hate saying you are wrong, but you are WRONG. I am sure Morgan understands this and I wont go in to a long detail of how and why. I will show you this link however with YAHOO The rest Morgan can explain to you.

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Surprise, surprise again your facts are totally wrong. Our site is almost 2 years old.

Yes your site NOW is almost 2 years old, but when you hit the top 5 your site was less than a year old. This doesnt happen with Google unless there are some spam techniques being used. Go ask on any seo forum if a site less than a year old can rank in Google without using any spam techniques for very competitive keywords in a major real estate market.

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Links are very important yes, but in the end content will always be king.

I agree, but the size of your website is based solely on your MLS system, you know it and I do.

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Morgan did not put all those communities on the right hand menu, I did.

Hmm this is interesting since some of his clients in major markets have the same navigation theme. HERES ONE Notice how similar it is. Its called Keyword stuffing, a ploy used by some Blackhat Seo's. Google will catch on to it, but its your site.

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I have more information on all those communities on my site then most other websites

Once again sorry but I have to disagree with you. You have a template that is used with maybe a paragraph of info on these communities, plus your MLS program for those communities on those pages of course using that community plus homes on the MLS script, which by the way from my understanding is against the raw data agreement, but please check for yourself. Would you say you have more information about those communities than my site?

Once again that is a common form, I see Marc using that form HERE You can not make a claim to stealing your form when it is a common used form type. Plus since you did have a problem with it we made a few changes.

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I've heard some really nice things about you Wayne. But you act like kind of a jerk on web boards. Tone it down a few notches. Get your facts straight. I'm sure you are a great guy, but sometimes it's difficult to tell in an environment like web forums.

Thank you Michelle, I cant say that I have heard anything negitive about you, for all I know you are a very nice person and a good Realtor. My point for posting this is to show from my past experiences with Seo Guy / Morgan is that he uses unethical/ Blackhat techniques to get sites ranked without telling his clients what he is doing. Whether he uses these techniques for all clients who knows, maybe its only the ones who pay him well.

These clients spend a lot of money for his services and when they get ban they have nothing to show for it. I DONT LIKE SEEING REALTORS SCREWED. I paid Morgan 2k per month back when I was a client of his, now what do I have to show for it other than a site that is ban by Google.

When I approached Morgan again I thought maybe he had changed his ways, but after this thread came up and I looked around I knew that he hadnt. Jim and I was his first clients, Morgan is where he is at today because of us. Now you have to ask yourself, if he does this kind of &^%$ with the people who got him to where he is, what makes you think you or anyone else is safe with him.

Las Vegas · 03-29-2006, 01:57 PM

Agreed! I have nothing further to say about any of it, I've said my peace about Wayne.

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Originally Posted by JimMessenger

Wayne,

While I certainly empathize with your anger toward Morgan and I appreciate the feedback that you have given to the topic, I must ask if we can all try to avoid going of topic in too many directions. These multiple issue tangents discourage readership and the original issue gets lost in all the fuss. I know that I stop reading threads that get too out of control.

The original issue was copyright infringement and plagiarism. Can we discuss these issues in this thread? Perhaps, if you desire, the admins can move the off topic posts to another properly named thread discussing black hat SEO problems, or such.

On another note, I know the folks over at mslasvegas and I don’t think Morgan sent them here to defend him. I didn’t get that from the post. I am sure that if they were sent here to defend him they would have spoken to the issue at hand. (however defenseless it is)

Thanks in advance for cooperating,

Jim

LVH · 03-29-2006, 02:03 PM

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The original issue was copyright infringement and plagiarism. Can we discuss these issues in this thread? Perhaps, if you desire, the admins can move the off topic posts to another properly named thread discussing black hat SEO problems, or such.

Sure Jim not a problem. I only point some of these issues out to show Morgans chartacter, because we all know that is what the underlying issue is about here.

I have said what I wanted to say and interjected what I felt were important facts as they related to comments in this thread and the underlying issues, so from this point forward I will bow out of the discussion.

Miami Beach Condos · 04-21-2006, 04:00 PM

Wow, I don't know if anyone else followed all that from the begining. It was like reading a novel that you just can't put down. I'm glad that it eventually ended however, cause I fell behind in my duties trying to stay on top of that. I really need to get out more.

LVH · 04-21-2006, 05:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Miami Beach Condos

Wow, I don't know if anyone else followed all that from the begining. It was like reading a novel that you just can't put down. I'm glad that it eventually ended however, cause I fell behind in my duties trying to stay on top of that. I really need to get out more.

Oh I believe the best is still yet to come. Give it time I think the final chapters are being wrote now, its all just a matter of time.